 Click on the marionette to go to a text version of the play. In Ibsen's play, A Doll's House, the main character, Nora, is forced to look at her life--her roles as a person, a mother, a wife, a worker. Even though the play was published in the late 1870s, the ideas Ibsen explores are still quite appropriate for people today.
Your assignment is to answer the question, "What is a woman's role in society?" In what area(s) do a woman's most important responsibilities lie? The topic is intentionally vague to give you the freedom to make what you wish of the assignment. You could take an historical viewpoint, a personal viewpoint, or an omniscient (objective) viewpoint. In your Primary Blog Entry, you should respond to the questions above in a single entry. Your Secondary Blog Entry should respond to two of your colleagues' entries that are especially interesting to you. Part One Expectations (respond to the prompt above): 200-250 words, 2 quotes from the novel, minimal errors in grammar and usage, thoughtful and thorough writing. Please use the assigned "pen name" given to you in class PLEASE FINISH BY TUESDAY NIGHT! Part Two Expectations (read everyone's first responses, select two that interest you, and respond to their ideas): 100-150 words EACH, minimal errors in grammar and usage, thoughtful and thorough writing. Please use the assigned "pen name" given to you in class. FINISH BY WEDNESDAY NIGHT!
12
3/24/2015 08:11:22 am
In society women are expected to be supporters of men. The main character Nora, has been living a life that she sees as blessed but blocks out that she has roles to follow. When talking to Krogstad about owing him money and forging her father's signature, he tells her that she better use her influence so he can keep his job in the junior position. "How can I have influence like that over my husband? (Ibesen 24)." Nora's most important responsibility at this point in the play is to just save money while preparing for Christmas. Her husband leaves that up to her. "*He hands her some notes* "I know how much money needs to be spen in a house at Christmas (Ibsen 9)." Preparing for the holidays is the only responsibility she is given, Mrs. Linde even doubts her when she claims how hard she and Helmer have had to work for the life they are living. Not only does she doubt her, she calls her out, "Dear God, you do some needlework, you embroider- you are a child, Nora. (Ibsen 16)" While accusing her of being a child, it is like at the same time Mrs. Linde is accusing Nora of being a stereotypical stay at home wife/Mom, and how could anyone be so tired over that? Although that is not an easy job, it certainly does not match up to Mrs. Linde's work experiences in the outside world, which seems uncommon for most women to be doing, she does it to keep her busy, if her life were not as pitiful as it is being described, I think Mrs. Linde would choose to live how Nora, and most women do.
8
3/25/2015 11:54:44 am
I think that was women's role back then. Women were supposed to support men whether they liked it or not, otherwise they wouldn't have anywhere else to go. The dependency on their husband makes them too vulnerable. I don't think being a housewife is a completely bad thing, I just dislike the idea of a spouse being so reliant on their wife/husband because it is not healthy. If Helmer were to leave Nora, she wouldn't be able to take care of herself because jobs were not as open to women back then. However, Nora has abilities Helmer does not. Being able to be more emotionally invested and having compassion in her relationships makes her an overall well rounded character who is able to empathize other people and consider other's feelings before making decisions. In a way the are equal based on their characteristics and gender role, but not so equal that they are able to step outside their boundaries and cross over to the other gender role.
15
3/25/2015 02:04:43 pm
Dear number 8,
4
3/26/2015 03:48:59 pm
Yes! Exactly, women had no choice whether to support their man or not. They had to for their family's sake, as well as their own. Men whose women did not act in a supportive way we're often looked down upon and possibly abused. The men had to be the breadwinners...women had no option. Women were raised to be weak, depending on their husbands for everything from food to money for clothing, etc. This weakness was what made it hard for many to support themselves when times got hard. Nora does not have the ability to do as she pleases, get a job, dress as she wants, keep the house how she wants, etc. If her husband doesn't like something she must fix it because that is her duty as his wife. Nora couldn't support herself if she tried, all her life she's been handed everything. Yes, she has smarts but that can only get you so far when you've not been able to form skills needed for the outside world. If the letter gets to Helmer...Nora supporting herself may become a reality. Now let's just find out whether she is found out or not and if it's possible for her to succeed in the real world.
4
3/26/2015 03:37:16 pm
I definitely agree that Nora's job is to support her husband. Her job is to make his day easier once he's home from work. She tends to all the house duties therefore he has nothing to complain about once home because everything is how he likes it. Mrs. Linde underestimates Nora's capabilities due to her responsibilities only involving keeping her husband happy in their marriage. Mrs. Linde makes a joke out of Nora's day to day schedule when saying all she does is needlework...not knowing all that Nora truly does. Mrs. Linde in ways might be jealous of Nora's lifestyle but then again is just happy for the job she was able to get out of the relationship. Mrs. Linde although proud of her accomplishments and ability to support herself would trade lives with Nora in a heartbeat. I'm sure Linde has pride in what she has done but it would be nice to be spoiled by everyone for a chance. The suspense is building within the play and hopefully Nora gets a hold of Krogstad before her husband gets to the mail. This letter in the mail will ruin not only Nora's marriage but also her reputation in society. Nora could very well wind up in jail or worse. Not to mention she thinks she's poisoning her kids since she forged her husbands signature. Nora as well as many other women in society have very little rights and when the go against their husbands...they basically signed their lives away. Women these days did not get second chances for situations like these...so let's see what happens next as the play unravels and we learn more about women of this time.
7
3/24/2015 08:31:02 am
Most people think that a woman’s role in society and is to only be a mother and a wife. Throughout history and in literature it is shown that women are suppose to look pretty and listen to their husbands and that is it. Women are looked at to provide for their family and are completely reliant on their husbands meaning that they have no money of their own. The main character in A Doll’s House, Nora is shown to only be a house wife. She doesn’t have any money of her own, “Not one penny from Papa. I found the money, I did.” (Ibsen 16) and her only job is to take care of her husband and children. Women in society are looked at as being weak and having no power, “A wife is not allowed to borrow without her husband’s consent” (Ibsen 16). Men are looked at as having all the power. For the longest time, only men held government positions and only men could vote. It wasn’t too long ago where women in America had the right to vote. Women in society have always been mistreated and taken advantage of. Even in today’s society women are still looked down upon. Even though women today are treated more equally now, there are still times were there have been certain circumstances where women are mistreated and looked at as being helpless.
8
3/25/2015 12:05:11 pm
There is more to being a mother and a wife. As a mother, you develop compassion and empathy. You are able to make better decisions with rationale because you are able to sort out your emotions, not letting anger or aggressiveness make you make "permanent mistakes to temporary problems." I think Nora has more power than she really lets off because she comes off as an airhead and just a housewife. She is the backbone of the family because she is almost raising her children by herself when she spends more time with them at home. She respects her husband for working to provide for the family and even goes out of her way to save his life and keep quiet about it. Nora does not do this to earn acknowledgment or acclamation, but because she cares about him and knows how important his role is to the family. She keeps in mind about how he feels and knows not to ruin his pride because she has empathy.
18
3/27/2015 02:47:43 am
Reply to #8: Yes there is more to being a mother and a wife, however in this time period the mother didn't really raise the children, the Nanny did. She was more of just a wife, from what we've read so far. I do agree with you that she is smarter than she leads on but in a scheming way. The secret she has is huge and to keep that from her husband while not having much money at all couldn't have been easy. I give her that. But she is dumb too. That mistake is the dumbest thing a person could have done. Especially because her father was dying. If she were to have put a date before he died and signed for him she would have been fine. Because even if someone found out she forged the signature she would have gotten away with it because the only person who could say she signed it was her father. It would have been the perfect plan. I still don't see how she could have overseen that.
8
3/24/2015 10:15:22 am
Women have always had the role of being more emotionally superior to men. Men are expected to act “macho” and not show emotions, but women were expected to have more empathy and profound thought to what they were doing. “Helmer: ‘Nora! Are you being a silly girl? Say I borrowed a thousand and you let it slip through your fingers during Christmas, and then a tile falls off the roof, hits me on the head, and flattens me. Nora: Don’t. Don’t say such horrible things’” (Ibsen 8). Helmer has the ability to talk about “grotesque” things, but Nora is too sensitive to that topic and prefers not to hear about it, which distinguishes gender roles here. “Nora: ‘Oh no. When it comes to money Torvald is very strict and he absolutely loathes debt, and anyway, Torvald is a man. He has a man’s pride. He would be so ashamed and humiliated if he thought he owed me anything. It would spoil our lovely marriage. It would just spoil everything’” (Ibsen 16). Nora takes emotions and her husband’s feelings into consideration. This shows that it would ruin a man’s masculinity if a woman were to save his life. Nora understands her husband emotionally. I’m not saying that men are not emotional, but it was not common for them to be emotional during that time period. They were expected to handle everything stoically. Women did not have much power over men back then but when it came to sentiments, they were superior because they can understand and analyze other people’s feelings.
19
3/25/2015 12:06:42 pm
I really liked your comment because I think people automatically focus on the things women weren’t able to do, but your comment about them being able to be free with their emotions is so accurate. I never really realized how detrimental that could be to a man and his mindset. Also, your statement about women having this ability and superiority was extremely powerful. It looks at their situation through a different lens and may even offer an explanation as to why women didn’t protest their role in society. They may have possibly been comfortable having this quiet victory over the opposite sex. Although this is a plus for women, it of course does not excuse the way society placed certain standards on them.
9
3/25/2015 01:48:57 pm
I agree with the statement that women are in a role that allows them to be more emotional than men, but there is to sides to look at this. One, as disadvantage since emotion, for some people, is associated with weakness thus giving women the image of being submissive. Two, as an advantage because emotionally connecting with others is something a man would typically not do. Also, when it comes to the children, they would naturally favor the mother in most cases due to her showing emotions to them more freely.
22
4/2/2015 04:22:14 am
I completely agree with your statement. Even in today's society it isn't very common for men to show much emotion. there's this guard that they have to maintain in order to make themselves look and feel superior. They would handle situations very sternly and out their foot down during certain situations. The women on the other hand are able to show that emotion that the men don't. Although women are a bit more flexible with decision making I feel like they get more benefits out of it because they do show emotion and because of that they have an advantage.
14
3/24/2015 01:00:26 pm
Woman’s role in society’s perspective has always been somewhat similar w, of this idea of woman being lead by their husband and going through their husband to make decisions .Nora explains to Mrs. Linde that she some how got the money the trip she took with her husband to Italy.Mrs. Linde responded with,”A wife is not allowed to borrow without her husband’s consent (Ibsen16)””.Later on during Nora’s conversation with Mrs.Linde she speaks about being a mother and wife which many people always refer woman to that’s the way they also get reconnection, like the way Mr.Krogstad approaches Nora about her husband being the new bank manager and how Nora borrowed the money from him for the trip.Then Nora responded ,"I don't believe that.A daughter can't protect her old,dying father?A wife can't help save her husband's life? I don't know the law very well, but Im sure it must say somewhere that this allowed…(Ibsen26)", Nora is trying to justify her actions when yet Mr. Krogstad accuses Nora of doing something wrong because she's a woman that went against what society makes people believe are woman's role.
13
3/24/2015 04:14:19 pm
The women at this time mine as well have no brain because it's not as if they were really doing anything or ab,e to something of significane they at their husbands bec and call and simply had no choice in the matter. I think Nora put up a front , I think she was worried that her husband will find out and that's why she's trying to justify that , since it was for her father she has the right to borrow money .
5
3/24/2015 01:05:34 pm
Back then, a women’s role in society was to be the housewife and bear children. A woman was basically powerless in a marriage. It was usually the husband that was the breadwinner and had more power. In the play, Nora never really talks about working. She says how she has worked hard, but not in the sense that she had a factory job or worked in an office. She did “needlework, crocheting, and embroidery” (Ibsen 13). The typical work that a woman would usually do in the time period. Through the play, we also see this image that woman are powerless when it comes to money. “A wife is not allowed to borrow without her husband’s consent” (Ibsen 16) which further emphasizes how powerless woman are when it comes to money. Currently, woman have more freedom than they did back then. However, there are still stereotypes about woman. You always hear people say that a woman belongs in the kitchen or there was even the campaign about what does it look like to run like a girl. Woman still have this feminine, weak image attached to them. There are still housewives that stay home and take care of children. I think a women’s role in society hasn’t completely changed, but more like improved or added upon. They definitely have more independence than before, but the traditional ideals still linger.
13
3/24/2015 04:10:14 pm
I agree women did not play a role at with bring any money and they would just have to take care of the children , but at this time needlework and other things such as that , that women would consider to be work , I believe was hard for them I think as a whole the women of this time were too reliant on the man , so when your husbands dies , like Mrs.linde you become lost quickly and have to start from scratch.
20
3/25/2015 12:54:57 pm
I partially agree with your statement, I agree with what you said about women’s roles back then and how they were inferior to the men who had control over everything. I also agree with how you said woman’s role nowadays has changed significantly. What I disagree with is that fact that you mentioned that people still say that women belong in kitchen and at home. I think strong stereotypes like that were more prevalent in the 1960’s rather than nowadays. I also believe that the weak feminine image you speak of still isn't all there because of woman’s role in society being increased throughout the years. For example, women being politicians and having a say in government affairs, being CEO’s of certain businesses, and principals of schools etc. With positions like these in society now, I believe that weak image they may have carried before no longer exists.
18
3/27/2015 02:55:27 am
This is a really good way to put how a woman is seen in society, I especially like the ending. Yes a woman's "role" has improved upon but the traditional ideas have never really left, and it will be a very long time if they ever do disappear. But I don't think today's image of a woman is a bad one. It's more balanced. Now we can work, be known as independent and yet still take care of a household. I don't really see anything wrong with it, what was lacking in the Society's view of a woman back then was that they could only be dependent of a man and couldn't have certain freedoms. But now? I'm ok with how a woman is viewed.
3
3/30/2015 02:23:31 am
I wouldn't say that this is expected of everyone woman to just be a wife and a mother. Some woman like Ms. Linde actual do work and this shows us that it wasn't expected of all woman to be a housewife. I would say that for the upper class or the more financially stable it was expected for the wife to be the stereotypical housewife, but if you don't fit into this category you work. Ms. Linde had to marry rich and now works. So I believe that it depends on what class you are in and what your circumstances are.
22
4/2/2015 04:28:42 am
I agree that women's roles have improved however they are still looked at through a weaker image. Even to this day it is much more common for men to have a high title job while their wife or other women in general aren't usually seen in those higher title jobs. They are much rather seen at home, with their children. It's not necessarily a bad thing however because some women really do just enjoy staying home and enjoying their time with their children or being home and waiting for their husband. Many of them even feel fortunate enough to not have to work. I like how you brought up the run like a girl campaign because many women feel offended by it but many don't do much to change this perspective that people have.
20
3/24/2015 01:17:48 pm
A woman’s role in society in my opinion is everything a man does but as well as support and look out for their husband, boyfriend, or significant other. My reasons for this stem from the in-class reading today with Act One of Henrik Ibsen’s A Doll’s House. Since Ibsen’s play revolves around the theme of what role women play in society, it offered good insight on this topic. The part of my answer that states that women have the same role as men is derived from when Nora states to her friend Christine that “You know the trip to Italy I told you about…..not one penny from Papa….What if the wife knows something about business?” (Ibsen 16) This quote showed me that just like her husband, Nora had connections to people and that she was capable of borrowing money when she needed it independent of her husband and without his consent which showed that she didn’t need him to do it. The quote where the second part of my answer is derived from is where Nora also states that “I’ve done something to be proud and happy about…..It was me who saved Torvalds’s life” (Ibsen 15) This quote showed me that everything Nora did, even getting in trouble with the bank with Mr. Krogstad even as foolhardy as it was, it was all to help her husband Torvald move to an area with a climate in which would lengthen his life. She only had her husband in mind and shows me that she is devoted to him even though she did not make the right moves at times.
7
3/25/2015 07:48:52 am
I like your idea and I can see where you are coming from, but I disagree that a woman’s role in society is everything a man does. In this time period men were depicted as being the provider of a family. The men worked and the men made the money for the family. Women in this society rarely did any of that. If they were married, the women mostly stayed at home and cared for their children and their husband. Men had more responsibilities and made all the decisions of the family. Women had way fewer responsibilities and had no power at all. Yes Nora was able to borrow money and save her husband’s life, but not all wives in that time period would have been able to pull something like that off. Nora had connections and is cunning which allowed her to be able to care for her husband without him finding out how she got the money.
20
3/25/2015 12:42:42 pm
I see where you are coming from with your idea and I agree. I failed to state exactly what time period I was talking about. I was talking about woman’s roles today and referenced the book to back up my statement because I do believe that Ibsen’s play and Nora’s situation can be viewed in a modern standpoint and be compared to what a woman would do in that sort of situation now in the present and emphasize what their roles are today. Back then yes, women had a minor role compared to their male counterparts because society then was controlled by males. Nowadays they are equal to men in every way and even have traits that are superior.
9
3/25/2015 01:55:27 pm
Rather than a woman having the same role as a man, they both may have the same intentions. A typically woman would be a housewife, during this time period, and her main objectives would revolve around taking care of her children, husband and maintaining the household; while the husband would financially support the family by having a job. With both partner in this relationship then everything balances out, but at the same time, I feel as if they both have burdens on different level. Looking past, A Doll’s House, a man would usually be stressed with his job and bills while the wife would fuss over troubles involving the children or household. When comparing there burdens, the husband’s troubles would weigh more than the wife’s; his problems are on a more serious note since it consists of “actually” supporting the family.
9
3/24/2015 01:55:09 pm
A woman’ role in society consists of “acting their part/character”. Relating my answer with the title, A Doll House, women generally need to act as the perfect wife or mother. Take for example, as Nora tells Mrs. Linde about her life, she goes on to describe “how happy [she] was [because her] husband starts work with the bank in the New Year” (Ibsen, 12/13). This is the character that Nora is playing when in reality she is stressed out about her debt. With this being said, there is nothing much for a woman to publicly do, without going beyond their role set by society. Women do not have any “real” responsibilities besides taking care of their children and maintain the house for her spouse; but these responsibilities should not be only pushed at the mother, the male in the relationship needs to act upon these jobs. However, this is unlikely due to how strong society’s influence is on the general public. Men typically believe that they should be dominant and provide for their wife; while their partner deeply depends on them for support. Note how Nora asks her husband “for money, give me more money” (Ibsen, 9). This situation is timeless, from when the play was written to now; both genders usually stick to their roles.
9
3/25/2015 01:41:31 pm
*excuse those typos, my Word doc is acting up
3
3/24/2015 02:26:32 pm
I believe that the role of woman is to be the caretaker of the children, to take care of the house, and to support the husband. We can see from the way Nora acts that her husband sets up many of the rules. The doctor evens says to her "what is this? Macaroons? Aren't they illegal in this house?" (19). This is the first example we see of how husbands are generally seen as the dominant one. They work and provide for the family, so what they say goes. The woman is suppose to follow what he says and not really generate an opinion of her own because she does not work, she does not support the family. I believe that the men have control because they provide for the family, so they feel they should be in control of things. The woman don't work to support the family so they don't have the right to speak up. We can see this through the dynamic between Nora and her husband. For a.most everything she asks his opinion and if she wants something she has to ask his permission. The woman has to be sneaky about getting what she wants. We can see Nora has a little influence over her husband when he gets her friend a job, but that is as far a it goes. She even says to Krogstad " Mr. Krogstad, I have no influence-" (24), after saying she did before. She has very little power over a lot. Her power only extends to the children and how to care for them.
19
3/25/2015 11:37:28 am
19
3/24/2015 02:49:14 pm
I personally believe that a woman may possess many roles. The older, stereotypical idea however was that a woman was to take care of the children, home, and domestic aspects of her life “I can have the house just the way Torvald likes it. Really beautiful.” (Ibsen 17). A woman was typically not regarded as the bread winner of the family and did not usually take part in manual labor. I also believe that women were not put in charge of the finances, which is why it’s surprising to find out that Nora “handled” the situation regarding money “I found the money. I did” (Ibsen 16). Also, the work that was available to women was very domestic such as maids, cooks, and seamstress jobs rather than work that required lots of schooling like being a doctor, lawyer, etc. I also believe that women were held to unrealistic standards that completely treated them as an alternate species. Etiquette and manners played a large role in society and women were expected to act accordingly in order to fit in with the norm. There was also no pardon that was given to women who may have been different or strayed from the “correct” way of life. Society seemed to judge women strictly while men were forgiven for their mistakes.
6
3/25/2015 04:53:46 pm
I completely agree with you women can be man different roles, but even today women are still treated a certain way its miles away from what it once was but it takes a long time to reverse the mindset men once held and the mindset that forced women to adopt. Between modern issues such as inequality in pay by gender and the mistreatment of women worldwide. I think that people can reflect upon modern thinking by looking back at the extremes of women stereotypes like in this play.
21
3/24/2015 03:03:38 pm
Women’s roles in today’s society aren't necessarily roles anymore. Women now have the power to live their life as they please, regardless of idealistic gender stereotypes. For example, in today’s society, it is ideal for a women not to work “manly” jobs such as things that involve hard labor. However, it is not looked down upon if women did so. Today’s women’s roles differ from the women’s roles in A Doll’s House. Women’s roles in this play was mainly to be housewives, the husbands did all the hard labor. “...I locked myself in my room every morning for three whole weeks, and I wrote till late night. I was tired. So tired. I did get such a lot of pleasure from sitting and working and earning money. I felt like a man” (Nora 17). This quote from Nora shows that women back in that time weren’t the ones who worked had to earn the money for the family, it was the men who did so. Another way women’s roles differ is that during that time period, women had to ask their husbands for money. Now women make their own money and don’t need their husbands permission to have money and to spend money as well. “Money. Give me money Torvald. As much as you think you can spare…” (Nora 9).
17
3/24/2015 03:28:54 pm
Women's role in society in the past can be defined as homemakers are mothers. In the past women were expected to be submissive to their husbands as well as inferior. They were supposed to tend to the children and perform other duties as a wife. They didn't have much freedom and it was expected of women to find a suitable husband and have kids. "A wife is not allowed to borrow without her husband’s consent" (Ibsen 16). This shows how women at the time weren't allowed any independence of freedom financial and therefore were dependent on their husbands. Women generally couldn't climb the social ladder without a husband and needed the security of their husbands' money to live a comfortable life. This led to unhappy and loveless marriages like Mrs. Linde, the recently widowed friend of Nora, who said that her deceased husband left her nothing "not even an ounce of grief" (Ibsen 12).
5
3/25/2015 04:39:47 pm
I agree with everything you said. I knew that Nora and Mrs. linde were complete opposites, but I never thought about Linde being a symbol of a modern woman. I like how this play intertwines the modern woman and the traditional woman so that we can really see the difference. Now a days, a woman in today's society is more free and isn't under the same amount of restrictions that Nora is under. Woman don't need to completely rely on a man for financial stability.
18
3/24/2015 03:31:48 pm
No matter the social class, or time era the perceived role of a woman hasn't changed. She is supposed to look her very best, as she represents her husband, cook, clean and take care of the kids. They are also very ignorant, because men were considered to hold that role of being educated. It's plainly shown in A Doll's House, "Krogstad: 'The law has no motives'. NORA: 'Then the law is foolish'...'I don't believe that. A daughter can't protect her old, dying father? A wife can't help save her husband's life? I don't know the law very well, but I'm sure it must say somewhere that that is allowed'" (26). Krogstad is trying to explain to her the fraud that she has committed and how serious the consequence can be. But she doesn't understand that, she believes that what she has done can be over looked by the law because it was out of love. The real world doesn't work like that, if you do something-regardless of the reason and you get caught, you get in trouble. She's so into her perfect marriage, perfect children and perfect life that she doesn't see it. It's the American Dream that has her so blind. Men are suppose to support a family, which is why woman couldn't work, and men especially didn't owe anything to their spouse, which explains why Nora doesn't want Helmer to know. "Helmer is a man. He has a man's pride. He would be so ashamed and humiliated if he thought he owed me anything" (16) A man is suppose to be the provider for the family not the woman, that is not her role. So for Helmer to owe anything to Nora would be shameful. Woman's roles in society were strict, and Nora is no exception to the rule.
15
3/25/2015 03:26:49 pm
I think that the role of woman have changed significantly in America. Women are free to pursue whatever career they want. They are able to earn wages to support their families. Woman can voice their opinions about politics and potentially change the world. The only way a woman can find herself fulfilling a gender role in America is if she chooses to. I don't think Nora had to conform to the gender roles in society. However, she chooses to because she wants to get through life easily without working hard. Mrs. Linde even stated that she had always been spending money carelessly yet she had hardly done any real work in her life. The lifestyle that Nora wants causes her to be dependent on a man, consequently trapping her in her own house.
5
3/25/2015 04:49:08 pm
I don't really agree with your first statement. Although some stereotypes of woman exist today, but comparing to back then women have way more freedom and independence. Now you see women getting a career and earning money. It's possible in todays world for the woman to be the breadwinner in her family. Also, I believe it's no woman's job to cook for their husband. Yeah it's nice, but to say that is what a woman should be doing in today's society is old fashioned. I don't agree with your statement saying that woman are ignorant either. Maybe you meant back then but women definitely are educated. However, no matter the gender anyone can be ignorant. She did break the law, but that doesn't deem women to be ignorant.
17
3/26/2015 02:05:40 am
I am not sure if I understand what you are trying to say. Are you referring to the past or the present? You said that women's role in society hasn't changed no matter the time era and this is where I disagree. I believe that women's roles have significantly changed. Women aren't expected to just be wives and cook, clean, and take care of their children. Women are also in the work force and yes, some are mothers as well but that doesn't define women in modern day society. I will agree that in the past, the word women was synonymous with housewife and mother, but it has changed. I also think that women were "ignorant" at that time because they couldn't do anything without their husbands consent.
10
3/24/2015 03:50:58 pm
A woman’s role in society back then was to be a mother and take care of the family. They were not expected to be independent and have power over men, nor do any kind of hard or heavy work. Nora Helmer even says that they’ve “both had to work very hard” (Ibsen 13), though she herself did “bits and pieces” (Ibsen 13) like “needlework, crocheting, embroidery” (Ibsen 13). She did mostly housework and what would be considered women’s chores.
24
3/26/2015 11:44:08 am
I agree with the fact that Nora exceeded her societal boundaries to save her husband's life and, in a sense, succeeded in fulfilling her role of caregiver to the fullest extent. However, I believe that she broke her gender role already by doing this. She rebelled against her husband's wishes regarding money, as well as society's inhibitions regarding money. She took matters into her own hands and would be praised in today's society, but unfortunately she is destined to be shamed for taking control of her situation. Even if it's to save a life -- just craziness I think!!
13
3/24/2015 04:06:48 pm
I find that the most important thing for women to do during this time was to marry as wealthy as possible and take care of your family . Nora is what you would call now and days a gold digger , always asking for money and always making sure gets the money from Helmer "you try every trick to get money" pg10 . Nora I continued reading is consitantly talking about herself , for example when Mrs.Linde came over to talk it took Nora no more than 5 seconds to go on about how much her life is better than Mrs.Linde . Nora was a lucky woman and married a wealthy , whereas Mrs.Linde did not. Mrs.Linde only married her husband because it was the only way to take care of her family , and she had no other choice "my mother...wouldn't have been justifiable" pg14. But when Mrs.linde husband dies she is left with no children and jobs that don't really help, and she's just completely lost. These two represent a women's two choices at this time you either marry wealthy and live a somewhat happy life and make lots of children or you have no children, end with no wife and continue working because you simply have no other options.
7
3/25/2015 08:00:07 am
I like how you compared Mrs. Linde and Nora and how they had to make certain choices that would allow them to be able to live an okay life. Women during this time period didn’t have many options. Their goal was to marry rich so they could live a well off life. Most women back then didn’t truly love their husbands and mostly married them in order to live well and have a title. Women relied on their husbands for everything. For the women who weren’t married, it was very difficult for them to find a job and make money since there were only few jobs women could have.
24
3/24/2015 04:13:33 pm
At the time that the play was published, the role of a woman was solely to care for her husband and for her children. There was no business, no power, no money, and no independence held in the palm of the woman, as it was for the men -- all they were to live for was miniscule. "MRS. LINDE: A wife is not allowed to borrow without her husband's consent, a wife --" (16). These days the roles of women are different. There are women who don't marry and instead pursue a career. There are women who marry but make all the money for the family and handle financial responsibilites while the father/husband takes care of the children. Nora's role, in the eyes of her husband, is the innocent, money spending caregiver that a woman should be. What her husband does not know is that behind his back she is taking a role beyond what society allows her to and if this secret is revealed it would ruin her as well as her husband.
6
3/25/2015 04:38:45 pm
I agree with you about the box that the time period has trapped Nora in, and although it wasn't right for her to take out a loan behind her husbands back, no one has ever taught Nora the value of hard work or that lifestyle is acceptable. So now she has to cheat and scheme to save up the money, for the sake of her husband who doesn't treat her with respect. He degrades her, and treats her as a child, or worse yet a pet.
4(blog post)
3/24/2015 04:34:39 pm
A woman's role in the late 1870s was to be a mother and homemaker. Women had very little rights and depended on their husbands when it came to financial matters. " Mrs. Linde: 'Nora, it's so kind of you, to help me-- especially when you know so little of how difficult life can be--' Nora: 'Sorry?' Mrs. Linde: ' Dear God, you do some needlework, you embroider-- you are a child, Nora.'" (Ibsen, 15) Even a woman is saying to another woman how little she does for herself. Nora is unaware that her whole life she's done nothing for herself and men have always been controlling or having power over her. She tries establishing her power with Krogstad but could barely hold her own since he has dirt on her. In this time period a woman's focus is to raise the kids and send them off to school, keep the house clean, and make their husbands happy no matter what (Especially if they want an allowance). These are their "duties" as women and anything else they accomplish usually had to do with the needlework and such they do on the side. For less fortunate families where the women might have to work there are lowly positions that offer wages to women, although not very much money it is enough for their "allowances" they usually get from their husbands. It would be very hard for a woman to support herself in this time but it is doable.
15
3/24/2015 04:42:42 pm
Society has always made it appear as if a woman’s role is inside of the home. This is because women tend to express their emotions more freely and are seen as physically softer. In “A Doll’s House”, the gender stereotype is evident by Nora’s disposition in comparison to her husband, Helmer; her husband is an advancing lawyer while she is a stay at home mother who does small miscellaneous tasks—“needlework, crocheting, embroidery”. Society expects women to be dependent on a man similarly to how Nora is dependent on Helmer. Nora had to beg her husband for money to spend on Christmas items and when Helmer gave her the money she counted, “Ten—twenty—thirty—forty” then she had to thank him and had to promise to “stretch it out”(Ibsen 9). The fact that she had to beg for money to spend on family goods portrays an existing olden gender role, where woman have no spending power. Even the fact that Nora took out a loan without her husband consent was seen as something irrationally to Mrs. Linde. Mrs. Linde expressed her thoughts about Nora taking out the loan by saying, “I think it is foolish if you did something and did not tell him about it” (Ibsen 16). In other words, women weren’t seen as being enough fit for business.
15
3/25/2015 01:31:25 pm
Society has always made it appear as if a woman’s role is inside of the home. This is because women tend to express their emotions more freely and are seen as physically softer. In A Doll’s House, the gender stereotype is evident by Nora’s disposition in comparison to her husband, Helmer; her husband is an advancing lawyer while she is a stay at home mother who does small miscellaneous tasks—needlework, crocheting, embroidery". Society expects women to be dependent on a man similarly to how Nora is dependent on Helmer. Nora had to beg her husband for money to spend on Christmas items and when Helmer gave her the money she counted, “Ten—twenty—thirty—forty”; then she had to thank him and had to promise to “stretch it out”(Ibsen 9). The fact that she had to beg for money to spend on family goods portrays an existing olden gender role, where woman have no spending power. Even the fact that Nora took out a loan without her husband consent was seen as something irrationally to Mrs. Linde. Mrs. Linde expressed her thoughts about Nora taking out the loan by saying, “I think it is foolish if you did something and did not tell him about it” (Ibsen 16). In other words, women weren’t seen as being fit for business.
15
3/25/2015 01:45:28 pm
Society has always made it appear as if a woman’s role is inside of the home. This is because women tend to express their emotions more freely and are seen as physically softer. In A Doll’s House, the gender stereotype is evident by Nora’s disposition in comparison to her husband, Helmer; her husband is an advancing lawyer while she is a stay at home mother who does small miscellaneous tasks—needlework, crocheting, embroidery". Society expects women to be dependent on a man similarly to how Nora is dependent on Helmer. Nora had to beg her husband for money to spend on Christmas items and when Helmer gave her the money she counted, “Ten—twenty—thirty—forty”; then she had to thank him and had to promise to “stretch it out”(Ibsen 9). The fact that she had to beg for money to spend on family goods portrays an existing olden gender role, where woman have no spending power. Even the fact that Nora took out a loan without her husband consent was seen as something irrationally to Mrs. Linde. Mrs. Linde expressed her thoughts about Nora taking out the loan by saying, “I think it is foolish if you did something and did not tell him about it” (Ibsen 16). In other words, women weren’t seen as being fit for business.
11
3/24/2015 04:47:38 pm
Women’s roles have changed drastically in the past half-century. They were expected to maintain the household, raise children, and above all, not complain. Expression was limited as were opportunities to leave. In the sixties and seventies, my mom had the choice of being ANY profession she wanted—as long as it was nursing or teaching. That was it. It’s sad that many gave up their personal ambitions for the sake of the family and to simply live. Some, like Mrs. Linde, married only to support her immediate family, ‘I had to take care of them. I couldn’t refuse his offer. It wouldn’t have been justifiable’ (Ibsen 14). In my home, Mom is the breadwinner, on top of the old school expectations, yet contrary to the general stigma that the father works all day. When teaching me domestics, she’d urge to perform well so my husband won’t leave me. It sounds weird now, since it’s so easy to set up a cup of ramen noodles on your own. However it shows how the concept of submission was taught to her generation and stronger to her mother’s. Thankfully society progressed to not inhibit careers paths, but hushed naysaying still abound. After all, ‘one has to live’ (Ibsen 19).
24
3/26/2015 11:21:43 am
The statement you made about your mother teaching you to provide so that he won't leave you brought out slight disgust on my part. I am a 100% supporter of women being able to do whatever it is that they want to do even if there is not a man who likes it. A woman does NOT need to know how to do things for the sole possibility of her husband leaving her if she does not reach these expectations. If a man does not approve, then the man can kick rocks and find another woman. These days women need to do things for themselves and for their families, NOT for the sake of her husband's approval. In healthy relationships there's an extent to which comprome applies -- however the line approaches quickly. Women need to begin to know when the line is crossed from compromise to control.
3333333
3/27/2015 03:35:38 am
I agree with your comment on woman's roles in life because I also believe a women shouldn't have to base her whole life around a man and be dependent on him for the necessities in life. A women should be able to provide for herself and her needs without having the approval of a man.
333333
3/27/2015 03:32:40 am
1
4/2/2015 06:00:12 am
Back then women’s roles in society were too being home and wait until their husband came home. They would have to do everything for their husband and always make them feel special. They were basically the supporters of the men. The thought of that has been that way forever and I feel like it kind of still is. It did kind of stayed that way because throughout history women were there to look pretty and stay at home and just be women. Even though I think it will stay like that forever, there are some women that aren’t like that. Now most women have a good career and some even do the things men do. I feel like women have as much authority as men do to do whatever they want or can. Men are usually the ones that believe that it is not right for women but that is kind of slowly progressing for men not to think that way. Comments are closed.
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