"The Rime of the Ancient Mariner" (1798) by Samuel Taylor Coleridge - Discussion Question10/13/2022
Idelisa Bonnelly
10/17/2022 11:46:27 am
There is something worse than death, and that is to die in life itself. To lose all hope and purpose, to believe that life is truly meaningless and to then succumb to the nawing void within you. To suffer a fate worse than death is to give up on all the wonders in life itself and be unable to experience it in all of its wondrous glory. To snuff out the warmth before the light itself. To die two deaths is a fate worse than one.
Mary Ainsworth
10/18/2022 06:04:23 pm
I would argue that to lose all hope and purpose, whether as a result of a near death experience or not, is a fate that is more painful than death but only with the addition that one remains alive Yes, letting go of the wonders in life when death comes is hard - it is the very reason why death itself is hard - but it is not worse than death itself. At least in death you get an end to the suffering that comes with such an experience, however, if one were to lose themselves in a near death experience and not even get the peace that death may bring, then they are to remain an empty shell for some time. Remaining alive in a state of suffering is a fate worse than death itself.
ANNE MARY PERCEVAL
10/18/2022 07:50:38 pm
Death is not, in my opinion, the worst thing that can happen to a person. Many things may be far worse. Although death may mark the end of our physical life, it also might mark the conclusion of our spiritual path. Because without the knowledge of an end, what is life? Death releases us from the circle of misery and frees us from the physical and emotional agony we unavoidably endure. It is perceived as a release from life, and for many people, it represents the worst possible outcome.
Marie curie
10/18/2022 09:15:14 pm
While I do acknowledge that suffering through life can be perceived as worse than death in some instances, I disagree that it is not the worst to happen. To still be alive is to live another day with another chance for something good and meaningful to happen. Even if the odds are slim, being alive is another opportunity to find joy in the things around you. To say suffering while alive is worse than death is ignorant and insensitive to those who have died and lack the chance to live again. Losing intangible ideas such as hope and purpose imply that they can be found again, whether it be within oneself or in something around them. While there is a rare case where the suffering seems to not come to an end, at least give it the opportunity to.
Rosalie S. Morton
10/19/2022 07:28:36 am
Interesting, I didn't think of it this way but it totally makes sense. To not rejoice in one's existence and recognize that they are alive and have the choice to find purpose in their life can in fact be worse than death. Death would at least allow someone to escape from what they perceive as this meaningless world, but to suffer in it without any purpose can be worst.
Jane Elanor Datcher
10/19/2022 11:10:43 pm
I think death is in a way the absolute worst thing that can happen to you. As a person, you are completely gone, wiped away from the earth, it can be swift or it can be torturous. From a christian standpoint, as you’ve truly lived your life for God, you should be expecting to go to heaven, and not be as unhappy awaiting death, but others who die don’t get a chance to come back and live better, change how they acted or affected others, or look at everything and everyone around them once more, etc. Once you're gone you're gone.
Julia Lermontova
10/20/2022 11:35:37 am
I definitely agree with you. I also think there is something worse than death. I think if you don't have any hope then whats the point of living ? Hope is a feeling of trust ;a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen. If you don't have any desires or wants, are you really living?
Rosalie Slaughter Morton
10/17/2022 03:43:41 pm
There are absolutely worse things in life than death. Death itself is not a bad thing, what may be horrible, are the ways in which people die. Death is an inevitable part of life that every living thing experiences or will experience. Everyone knows it's a natural occurrence which is why there are celebrations and traditional customs in different cultures that celebrate the lives of those who have passed. There are countless amounts of things that are worse than death that go on in today's world and have in the past: school shootings, sex crimes, war-crimes, child abuse, slavery, genocide, cannibalism, terrorism, and many more devastating things that go on around the world that no one should ever experience. Would you rather want someone to go through one of these tragedies, or die a natural death and be assured they'll be at peace.
Olga Guramishvili-Nikoladze
10/19/2022 11:34:43 am
I believe that it may not be death itself that we fear, but the means that will lead us to that inevitable end. I also believe that people may fear the unknown that lies on the other side of death. Does one fear death because they do not know how it will come to them, or what might come after? Death should be a peaceful thing, the one thing in existence that can be relied on entirely (aside from birth of course). The reason death is feared is due to the pain that lies before it and the mystery that lies after, overshadowing an otherwise reassuring reality.
Marietta Hannon Rousseau
10/19/2022 06:30:36 pm
I completely agree with you. In our society, the way in which people die is far scarier than the act of dying itself. Another example that comes to mind is dying due to lack of access to adequate healthcare; the fact that people are forced to die premature deaths due to a lack of a basic human right is terrifying. Death is beautiful and natural, however, to have no choice but to die is horrific and political.
Emily Stowe
10/17/2022 04:05:10 pm
In life the final ending is death. People say that your own death will be the worst thing to happen to you and it will be the final thing that will ever happen to you. I would beg to differ. In your life it will always end in death but death is the freedom you get from the harness of life. Life is the harness that maintains you grounded in this world. If that harness is ever taken away you must keep going through the journey of life begrudgingly even though you should have finished the story 4 seasons ago. Similar to the story those who are forced to live the longest are forced to see those who they love dearest die before them. The captain in the ballad was forced to be immortal and tell the tale for time to come. He will be unable to make long lasting connections since he will be immortal and see anyone he connects with die when their time comes.
Agnes Mary Clerke
10/17/2022 06:15:27 pm
Can a person's guilt affect their sanity? Should it?
Jane Kilby Welsh
10/18/2022 07:05:08 pm
I agree. Many literary works are centered around the theme of guilt and its affect on the human psyche, as seen in both The Rime of the Ancient Mariner and The Telltale Heart. Whether it is shown by hallucinations or by a narrator's overall inner conflict, guilt is capable of driving people to insanity. Though, there poses the question of why guilt has such an impact on the mind. Is because of the fear of potential consequences? Or a moral obligation to undo one's wrongs? The concept of guilt, being as abstract as it is, can't be simplified to one emotion or response. Knowing this, I wouldn't say that guilt has to or should affect one's sanity, for guilt will have its own consequences regardless.
Caroline Eichler
10/17/2022 07:02:47 pm
Is a leader fully responsible for those they lead?
Jane elanor Datcher
10/19/2022 10:54:42 pm
I definitely agree with you. As I was writing my response I was thinking the exact same thing. Although leaders can be very impactful on others, people also have free will and don’t have to do/follow everything they are impacted to do. Besides being a good leader, I think in this aspect being a purposely bad leader who knows they have an impact and play an important role on others can lead people astray. There was no reason for the sailor to shoot the bird that could have served as a good omen rather than a bad, and this ended up hurting and burdening not only the sailor but the crew.
Marie Curie
10/17/2022 09:39:07 pm
Is a leader fully responsible for those they lead?
Jane Kilby Welsh
10/18/2022 07:21:56 pm
I agree. Though, I do think that leaders will still ultimately be held
Emily Stowe
10/18/2022 10:32:46 pm
A leader is someone who the entire group would follow to their graves. A leader is someone who personally takes on the responsibility of the people in their group or the people they lead over. While yes a leader can influence the people's actions and words they are also responsible for the outcome of the events they lead through and the fates of those they lead through said events. If a person is put in charge of a group that can be potentially going through a dangerous or deadly event such as firemen the leader would be one who is held responsible for anyone who might have died in event. This also counts for other leaders such in sports if a team leader makes a bad call or they fumble the ball they are also held responsible for their teams loss. In my personal opinion a leader whether or not they wanted it if they step up to the position of a leader they are responsible for the people they lead.
Nadezhda Ziber-Shumova
10/20/2022 03:24:14 pm
I agree. Leaders are there to only guide the people they are responsible for, but they are not responsible for the actions that affect the "sinner" themselves; only the actions that affect the entirety of the unit in which the leader leads. However, some argue that this means they are not good leaders if they cannot control the behaviours of their subordinates. Anyone of us could capture the respect and attention of people, but a true leader would keep it, though I think it would be unfair to judge the captain of the mariner's ship because unfortunately, he too, died; not by his choice nor a result of his leadership, but of the mariner's recklessness that was not even done in the fruition of anything.
Jane Kilby Welsh
10/17/2022 11:26:31 pm
Can a person's guilt affect their sanity? Should it?
Marie Curie
10/18/2022 09:30:55 pm
I agree that while Christianity is not universally accepted, it is still the foundation of many aspects of history and literature that cannot be withdrawn easily.
Izabela Textorisova
10/18/2022 12:39:07 am
Can a person's guilt affect their sanity? Should it?
Mary Ainsworth
10/18/2022 08:08:30 pm
I enjoyed how you connected both physical and mental guilt together. Speaking physiologically, the stress that comes from guilt can cause physical discomfort such as a loss or gain of appetite, sleep, or weight. These physical effects only cause more of a downfall for the individual experiencing the guilt. Interestingly, a cycle can begin where an individual's guilt can manifest in physical ways and these physical ways create new aspects of guilt such as a gain or loss in weight or a neglection of personal hygiene. Due to this, and relating to your insightful take on the question, when speaking of guilt it is impossible not the mention the physical components as both physical and mental aspects are extremely intertwined.
Mary Ainsworth
10/18/2022 03:06:15 am
Can a person's guilt affect their sanity? Should it?
Sofya Kovalevskaya
10/18/2022 10:07:15 am
Is a leader fully responsible for those they lead?
Caroline Eichler
10/18/2022 09:16:06 pm
I definitely agree with this because everyone knows that you can say that you can't do something, but others will do it anyways. It's like how laws are in place, but that doesn't stop people from breaking it. So would that be the government's fault? Overall, not necessarily.
Agnes Mary Clerke
10/18/2022 11:03:29 pm
I agree that the leader is not the end-all-be-all but I think within this situation, the Marnier had control over his crew's fate inadvertently. His decision to kill the albatross ultimately caused the deaths of his crew. Likewise, if there is a group of people who are in the car, the driver is in control of those people. Not physically controlling them but in some way controlling their fate. Therefore, a leader can help encourage and sometimes take charge of their followers' lives even if they are against the leader.
Marietta Hannon Rousseau
10/18/2022 10:11:10 am
In our culture does punishment typically fit the crime?
Caroline Eichler
10/18/2022 09:21:58 pm
What you have stated about modern crime and the Mariner's crimes are completely true. I feel like the way they made the Mariner have the bird he killed attached to him was a bit too far. Especially because in today's day and age, the Mariner probably wouldn't have suffered much of a consequence. However, in the past times, the punishments for little things that are theorized to have a bad omen can have worse punishments than if you actually were a mass murderer in today's age.
Emily Stowe
10/18/2022 10:57:20 pm
I agree with you that the punishment will never truly fit the crime there are occasions where the crime fits the punishment for a certain type of culture or group of people. For example the Albatross killing would fit the crime within the group of sailors as it would be seen as a worthy punishment for the crime. Another example is in ancient Aztec cultures they had the 3 central laws of their culture: Never steal, never lie, never be lazy. The crimes they had for these laws were respectively: Your hands will be cut off, your tongue will be cut out, and your foot will be crushed. These punishments seem barbaric to us nowadays but to them these laws were fair punishment to maintain their society in order. While in reality the punishment will never fit the crime to us in our society we know the punishment might have fit the crime depending on the people it is around.
Agnes Mary Clerke
10/18/2022 11:32:22 pm
Within this culture, the crimes don't often fit the punishment. I agree a punishment is often ignored too weak or too much. However, I believe the Mariner's punishment was only hanging the albatross and the death of his crew was just a consequence. Not a total punishment. It seems to be more for an explanation and result of his actions. His role as a leader proved he failed his crew and the universe just told him his failures.
Anne Mary Perceval
10/18/2022 10:17:31 am
Is a leader fully responsible for those they lead?
Rosalie S. Morton
10/19/2022 09:00:33 am
I get what you're trying to explain. Although a leader is supposed to assume full responsibility of those they lead, the ones they lead may not always want to be led. That's where rebellion sets in and strays from the path set by the leader. The followers have choices to either be led by the leader or rebel against them which is correct. However, rebellion comes with consequences for both the followers and the leader. The followers get in trouble for rebelling, whereas the leader has to deal with the "damage" done by those they lead and fix the problem.
SOFYA KOVALEVSKAYA
10/19/2022 10:34:27 am
I agree with your response in terms of full responsibility, and the sense that it is not the leaders. I disagree, however, with your point about the will-full ignorance of the request of a leader, as pointed out in the last few sentences. If the leader is truly impactful, their followers will not ignore their guidance simply out of laziness, but carefully consider what they say and how they can use tools provided to make personal choice.
Olga Guramishvili-Nikoladze
10/19/2022 11:22:20 am
Depending on the circumstance, I believe it is appropriate for Christian morals to be a part of literary works, whether ethical or not. Because these morals exist in the real world, they should be included in the fictional world as well, since core values should remain similar to ones that are possible in real life. On the other hand, if Christian morals were never introduced to the world the story is trying to create, it would be less ideal to include them. No matter what moral system or systems are used, It should be feasible that these morals could occur by being either spread to or made independently in the world of the story.
Elizabeth Acevado
10/19/2022 10:54:02 pm
I agree that what happens in the real world should be implemented into fictional settings like non fiction. This allows us to explore real concepts in a more fictional and creative way. All sorts of religious and ideological belief systems should be represented to be fair, unless they cause harm. There should be no unfair bias towards a specific belief system. Likewise, these should be represented in all types of fiction and Christian morals should be part of literary works. I don't really get what you mean though by "On the other hand, if Christian morals were never introduced to the world the story is trying to create, it would be less ideal to include them."
Jane Elanor Datcher
10/19/2022 09:35:58 pm
I think in certain aspects, leaders can be fully responsible for those they lead. Although everyone has free will, the mind can easily be manipulated. In the story of The Rime of the Ancient Mariner, The leader kills the beautiful albatross for absolutely no reason, his crew salutes him and for this later has to pay with their lives. If the sailor never killed the Albatross then his crewmates would have never agreed with him. I enjoy that the author correlated this with the Bible and sin and because of this I want to make a connection to the Bible. In Matthew 18:6, Jesus says: “As leaders, you are responsible for those you lead. These people are looking to you for guidance, like little children. We have a responsibility to lead and to lead well. We can't take our leadership lightly.” The sailor had to take full responsibility for his crew mates, and had to bear the burden of their death; ultimately leaders are not only responsible for who they lead but how far they lead them.
Elizabeth Acevado
10/19/2022 10:22:17 pm
I agree that leaders can have the full responsibility of who they lead and I like how you used the example of children in that Bible verse. Obviously children are very impressionable and most of what they learn comes from what they are taught from their environment, so that was a great analogy to use so you could support your point. A leader who has a power dynamic over who they're leading can definitely take advantage of them because they wouldn't know better. A bus driver has the responsibility of bringing all of the passengers to their destinations and picking them up because that's their job so that's what people expect from him. A teacher has the responsibility of teaching the students everything they need to know. They expect that they are teaching the right thing.
Elizabeth Acevado
10/19/2022 09:44:36 pm
Yes, there are absolutely worse things in life than death. Living with the guilt or shame of doing something extremely reprehensible seems much worse than simply just not being alive. Living with that type of shame on a daily basis and constantly being reminded of it would likely be painful- at least when you are just dead you didn't do anything wrong. Additionally, some shameful acts can never be forgiven at all and you can not move on from, but everyone dies so there's nothing wrong with that. For example, how can someone who's committed murder or another heinous act be seen and treated the same as "everyone else." Although it may not be completely comparable, in "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner," the pain inside the mariner was so great that he had to tell the tale so someone. It would be unbearable for him to live on with it to the point where he couldn't live satisfied. Shame is one of the worst feelings to experience and when you can’t go back to change you’re actions, the thought of it will always haunt you now and then. That's why being alive can sometimes be worse than being dead.
Julia Lermontova
10/20/2022 11:31:33 am
Can a person's guilt affect their sanity? Should it?
Nadezhda Ziber-Shumova
10/20/2022 03:07:19 pm
Can a person's guilt affect their sanity? Should it?
Rebeca Lee Crumpler
11/4/2022 10:56:30 pm
Question- Are there worse things in life than death Comments are closed.
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