At a critical moment in the novel, Jane proclaims herself Rochester’s equal: “It is my spirit that addresses your spirit; just as if both of us had passed through the grave, and we stood at God’s feet, equal—as we are!” Rochester responds, “As we are!”
Why is Jane so passionately outspoken? Is her self-valuation exceptional and true? Is she more noble and impressive here than Rochester is? Why is this long scene (Chapter 23) so important for the novel as a whole?
Please respond to the questions above in your Primary Blog Entry. While you are composing this response, please consider the following questions in your blog entry.
1. React to the differences between Jane and the women who visit Rochester at Thornfield Hall. Comment on all aspects of these women’s lives.
2. What impact would marriage to Rochester have on the life of Miss Ingram? Jane? What could each of them bring to Rochester in a marriage?
3. How is marriage a political issue for these women?
In your Primary Blog Entry, you should respond to the two questions above in a single entry. Your Secondary Blog Entry should respond to two of your colleagues' entries that are especially interesting to you.
Part One Expectations (respond to the prompt above): 200-250 words, 2 quotes from the novel, minimal errors in grammar and usage, thoughtful and thorough writing. Please use the assigned "pen name" given to you in class PLEASE FINISH BY FRIDAY NIGHT!
Part Two Expectations (read everyone's first responses, select two that interest you, and respond to their ideas): 100-150 words EACH, minimal errors in grammar and usage, thoughtful and thorough writing. Please use the assigned "pen name" given to you in class. FINISH BY SUNDAY NIGHT!
3/28/2014 09:37:57 am
Jane is so passionately outspoken here because she can’t hold back anymore. As Rochester subsequently puts it she is “madly in love with me [Rochester]” (Bronte 304). She seems nobler to me because she has the courage and boldness to spontaneously speak her heart and mind, whereas Rochester was content to wait for her to say something. Jane has spent enough time in Rochester’s presence that she feels she can read his every move, find things in his face that no one else sees, and to recognize “a gem I had seen a hundred times before” (Bronte 234) when Rochester played his game of being a false gypsy. The scene in chapter 23 as a whole is important because it is the result of the inability to hold back on Jane’s part I mentioned above. It is the culmination of about seven chapters’ worth of events and feelings and emotions, which thus far makes up almost a third of the novel. It is touted on the back of the book (“where she [Jane] finds herself falling in love with her employer”), and is the crux of the current conflict of the novel. These aspects mechanically and emotionally make this scene such an important moment in Jane’s life and in our reading of the novel.
3/30/2014 01:49:21 pm
In some way this is the beginning and climax of their little love story. They finally verbally confess to each other just how deeply they care for one another and can be finally honest and open about it. This is a pivotal scene for the novel because Jane recognizes that she is not inferior and that she is Rochester’s equal. If they are to marry she must feel worthy of him in her own mind. Additionally, he must see her as his equal and as his wife despite her lack of wealth or status. If not then Jane will not stay.
3/30/2014 10:47:59 pm
It is interesting that Jane can't hold back anymore. In her "adult" life she has been somewhat disciplined and less outspoken. It is almost as if she is reverting back to her childhood. The real Jane is coming back out. I also agree with you about the fact that Jane's demeanor is noble at this point. She has the courage to say what she feels and Rochester definitely does not.
3/28/2014 03:54:33 pm
In this climactic scene, Jane finally has the confidence to speak boldly. She now seems more impressive than Rochester despite their disparity in social classes. This scene shows Jane's independence from Lowood's ideals of quietly doing as she's told; here, she asserts that she has feelings, that they're important, and that she must do what's best for her.
3/30/2014 08:41:30 am
I agree with your arguments. Given the text, they all seem quite factual. My one qualm is with your mentioning of how Jane would become so pampered and rich. Would she really accept all that, given her lack of knowledge about the frivolity of the rich? Also note that she is nothing like Miss Ingram, and she knows it. Wouldn’t she therefore reject any sort of transformation into someone like Miss Ingram? I do agree with the rest of your explanation of her transformation, though – she has proven time and again that she’s a great conversationalist and also quite good at keeping his spirits up. If I hadn’t read the back cover I’d wonder if that’s the only thing she’s good at keeping up…
3/30/2014 11:40:43 am
I didn't say she'd like it, just that Rochester would make her live that way! But yeah, maybe she'd have enough influence on him to completely prevent it.
3/30/2014 08:47:17 am
In accordance with your response, I think that Jane has greatly matured since she arrived at Thornfield. She has gained a lot of independence of mind. As the reader can observe in this scene in the orchard, Jane is more capable now of speaking what she is thinking than she ever was before. Jane is truly a passionate person at her core, although her years at Lowood suppressed this trait. Now she can emerge from that fog and make things happen in her life instead of waiting quietly.
3/30/2014 10:52:19 pm
I agree with you. I think that Jane did lose those things that she was conditioned to at Lowood in this moment. She goes back to her old self like when she was a child. I also agree that Jane has a much better value system than the rich girls. She does not care about money or comfort, but cares about an orphan child, and a man (not his money).
3/30/2014 08:09:52 am
Bronte purposefully made Jane passionately outspoken because she wanted to have Jane be the opposite of a typical female during that time period. Thus making Jane not only something to compare the other women in the book to, but to also make her character stand out. Coming from the story line stand point, you can also revert back to her childhood and talk about how she never really had a say in anything because of her awful aunt and cousins, or when she was in school, and almost had to play a part.
3/30/2014 08:26:08 am
I agree with the idea of Charlotte Brontë making a social and/or political statement through Jane’s character. In that society, it was considered unladylike for a woman to confess her love to a man. It was supposed to be the other way around. Brontë is challenging this idea and others like it, which suppresses a woman’s freedom of expression. To do this, she uses the main character, who the reader is supposed to sympathize with, and has her disobey that etiquette in a way that makes sense. The reader can therefore be persuaded to accept change in this aspect of society.
3/30/2014 11:59:55 am
Jane is society's foil? I guess that explains why she's so often an outcast. And maybe it's a political statement or something from Brontë to suggest that women should be more like Jane.
3/30/2014 03:33:33 pm
I agree with you completely that this was a way for Bronte to make Jane's character a type of role model for women of that time period who normally would not speak out as she did and suggest such a thing such as equality with a man, let alone equality with a man above her social standing. I like your last statement when you point out that this gives Jane a bit of power over Rochester because by doing so, she is essentially embodying someone that isn't an equal to Rochester, but someone who has the potential to be superior.
3/31/2014 04:28:30 pm
I can connect with your idea of Jane having power over him. It not only goes along with how she is, but with the purpose that she has. She is distinct from other women, and would make sense for her to have such power that they do not possess. Thus, showing that even though men were the higher sex during that time, women had control over them. Not just any female, however. Specifically someone such as Jane who was different from the start, and whom was not solemnly interested in money. It hadn't crossed my mind that Jane had such power. Now that you mention it, I totally agree with you on that note.
3/30/2014 08:12:11 am
If Miss Ingram and Rochester had married, it would have been socially acceptable and generally comfortable. Blanche and her family would be especially happy with the union. It seems vital to Blanche, based on her reaction to “the gypsy’s” fortune telling, as “She had obviously not heard anything to her advantage,” from her reading (Brontë 224). On the other hand, this woman means little to Mr. Rochester. It is revealed in chapter 24 that Rochester “feigned courtship of Miss Ingram,” was using her, in order to “render [Jane] as madly in love with [him] as [he] was with [her],” (Brontë 304).
3/30/2014 08:45:09 am
Your prediction of the future seems interesting and it made me think of something. Jane’s own parents married for love, yes? Look where they are now. Could that have been foreshadowing for Jane’s own life? After all, she IS marrying for love and Rochester isn’t marrying for money – these would pose problems further down the line, I’d think. To add to your last statement, it also wouldn’t be hard for them to isolate themselves since they’re more or less already isolated in Thornfield Hall. I suspect that if they kept quiet about Jane’s origins or perhaps raised the mention of her mother’s origins since she was rich as well that there would be no issues with her bloodline. She only seems poor because of the way she was treated in her youth, in my opinion.
3/30/2014 04:36:48 pm
I agree with you, number two. (rhyming lol)
3/31/2014 03:21:48 pm
I also think that if Blanche Ingram and Mr. Rochester had married, they would have been socially acceptable, but they would have been totally miserable because they don’t love each other. It would have been a chaos and it is totally unfair that people have to marry according to their class. It is unfair that just because Jane Eyre is poor, they won’t be able to be socially acceptable, but at least they would love each other. If Rochester marries Jane, she would not like to stop being a governess because she does not wish to change what she really is. She does not even like when Rochester tried to buy those expensive jewels. Jane will always be the same to everyone.
3/30/2014 09:40:48 am
Jane is so outspoken because thats how she grew up. She always believed that she should be equal with other people. She thought she should be equal with her cousins but she didnt get that treatment. She thought she should be like all the other students but didnt get that treatment. Now here she is getting equal treatment from Rochester and he wants to do that. He wants to talk to this girl thats different then all the others. The other girls were all brought up to be "inferior" to the men and follow their lead. Jane doesnt do that and Rochester likes that. Thats why he treats her like an equal and why she feels like she can be outspoken to him.
3/30/2014 11:50:54 am
So maybe she loves Rochester because he's the only one who ever thought of her as an equal? Interesting, though the way she calls him "master" while he calls her an elf doesn't really support that (and is also weird).
22(Im about go in on this)
3/30/2014 01:06:53 pm
OKay okay okay>>> let me break it down for you thugs real quick about the hooches that arrive at my boi Rochesters crib. this hooch Ingram is like a back in the day kardashian. she is rich and extreamly spoilt. this gold digger is getting all cup-cakey with my boi Rochester, just because she like to see that green and getting all up in my boi pockets. basically this.. u know.. is marrying Rochester like if she is doing business. but you know my boi Rochester, he wants a babe that is true to him and not like them basic ****** who shows up his crib trying to get all French with his money. Rochester is a classic story of a thug blinded by his money and not seeing what he truly wants rather than marrying a hooch in which will run him MC hammer broke. My girl Jane on the other hand putting it down with boi Rochester. although they didn't knock boots yet, jane represents the patriot of the women society. instead of girls falling all over Rochester in which the pimp is use to. my girl does it the true playa way and plays hard to get. Rochester is use to flashy women with lotss of green, and look all clean, but jane she knows how to make a scene. when roschester speaks to women he expects them to do what he says no questions ask. but jane she the only one that had the cojones(scarface voice) to stand up to the big homie, and say "yo thug, we equal and u not talking to me like that Okayyyy,"(snaps finger). now in the mansion where my boi Rochester is like a Hugh Heffner, with all the bunnies in his crib, time to see who got the tokens to get that rock on their finger. Ingram, she basically has money and being an obedient girl whos gonna run the brother broke. Jane on the other hand will bring true and tough love Rochester. being the only girl to stand up to Rochester was the way to his heart. he basically wants what he cant have. I mean can u blame a playa. jane is the reality in his life in which she challenges every aspect in his life and also is the solutions to the problems that he encounters.
3/30/2014 01:33:56 pm
LMAAOOO well said 22. I agree that Jane was playing a bit hard to get, though not on purpose. That’s just how she is, a respectable educated young girl who knows neither greed nor manipulation. The innocence and honesty of Jane may have initially drawn Rochester to her but it was her outspokenness that kept him. The other women in his life are strictly there to please him because of his status and wealth. As you put it, “gold diggin” Ingrid is there for the purpose that she is to marry someone who is well off such as Rochester. He recognizes this and chooses love instead.
3/30/2014 03:26:19 pm
I'm digging yo style 22. You definitely had a response that was fun to read and I like the fact that you pointed out that not only does Rochester make the right choice, but he does so for the right reasons. He makes his choice based on who he actually loves, Jane. He doesn't do the common thing of the time period which would be to marry for money and keep the wealth together. Instead he follows his heart which in the end, as you said, was the wiser choice because Ingram would have potentially used up all of his money and clearly wanted him for the wrong reasons.
3/30/2014 04:31:06 pm
Agree with this analysis completely. (I dig your style too. Kudos.)
3/31/2014 06:44:07 am
I love the way you wrote this response, beyond entertaining! But, I completely agree with what you have to say. You make a point to explain that he isn't messing with his want-to-be-side-hoe since Jane gives him that cliche feeling. Jane puts him in his place instead of keeping him in charge. She opens him up to a world he never saw before. Maybe Miss Ingram would please everyone, but would he rather want happiness for the rest of his life with Jane or 72 day marriage with this back in the day Kardashian?
4/1/2014 04:20:49 pm
lmfaoooooo I'm so done right now! You mad real for this. I actually enjoyed reading that in all honesty
3/30/2014 01:25:09 pm
Jane has always been different, from every home she’s been in. She speaks her mind without being dishonest but also keeping true to herself. Unlike the women who visit Mr. Rochester, Jane is un-uniquly unique. She is plain at best, has little to offer because she is without money, status, and family. She has no estate and knows very little of the world. But compared to the women, she has genuine character and a mystery about her. She is outspoken with Rochester which sets her apart from all the women in his life. Jane is upfront with her feelings and is passionate about them. “Do you think, because I am poor, obscure, plain and little, I am soulless and heartless? You think wrong! - I have as much soul as you, - and full as much heart! And if God had gifted me with some beauty and much wealth, I should have made it as hard for you to leave me, as it is now for me to leave you!”
3/31/2014 04:34:14 pm
I agree with your statement. I believe that Rochester only had these women because it was the idea of what a typical woman was back then. However, he fell in love with Jane because of the sincere intentions she had for herself, and towards other. She is indeed, a genuine character. Even without the knowledge that Rochester had, she stood up for herself against him. Hence, giving him another reason to love her more. Jane didn't just agree with everything he chose or said. On the contrary, she challenged him and made him know that he wasn't better than everybody else.
3/30/2014 02:06:30 pm
We all know that Jane is blunt, her mind is free of any dishonesty but she always stays true to her character. She's dumbfounded by the world that entraps her, she's just plain Jane, she has no money, a low status as well as no family with a name to remember. She's outspoken when it comes to Rochester, which intrigues him to pursue her. Jane is upfront with her feelings, not like many other females in this story, "I have as much soul as you, - and full as much heart!" The love that Rochester has for Jane is clear as a sunny day, "I entreat you to accept me as your husband." Jane is a reality in his life, something that isn't sugarcoated, caked with lies, she's real. Jane is not an equal, she is above that. It's not acceptable in many peoples eyes for the two to marry, but it is okay for Ingram and Rochester to, it's because Ingram has a higher social status than Jane. It's not about marrying whom you love, but it's about marrying the money/class.
3/31/2014 06:28:42 am
I completely agree with your response, she is essentially his reality. He loves the idea that she isn't as plastic as the other women he encounters. She doesn't throw herself at him like everyone else, and tells him straight up what she wants him to know. She gives him the truth that he needs to hear and he loves that fact. They have a love that people would die to have and it brings him such happiness to think that he has someone that can make him feel like that. Though his family will be disapproving, he still loves her with everything he has.
3/31/2014 03:09:51 pm
I agree with your response, Jane Eyre’s mind is free of any dishonesty and always stays true to her character. Mr. Rochester may love the idea that Jane is not really like the other women, she is just different. It is obvious that their marriage is pure and clear as a sunny day, like you said. Jane is always telling him the truth, not like Blanche, and he loves that. It looks like Mr. Rochester truly loves her and doesn't care about her class. Though, it wasn't fair of Rochester trying to change Jane because he wanted to dress her like she was from upper class.
3/30/2014 03:21:24 pm
The reason Jane declaring herself as Rochester’s equal is so significant is because usually, during this time period that would never be the case. By Bronte having Rochester confirm Jane’s statement that they are equals it proves as a sort of fact to the reader. It exemplifies the power of love and relationships for the novel as a whole because this exchange of words between the two establishes equality through morals and respect, not through material possessions and money. It sends the message that what is most important is character and personality, not financial status and that one must not miss out on opportunities just because a person of interest doesn’t have the same upbringing. Jane has always been outspoken so her declaration to Rochester does not surprise me. Even when she was a mere child she spoke out to her cruel aunt in a bold manner by saying “I am glad you are no relation of mine: I will never call you aunt again for as long as I live.”(47 Bronte) Her outspokenness has not left her has she has aged, she has only learned to present it in a more mature manner. Jane’s proclamation is not out of place due to the fact that they have mutual love for each other. For once she is made to feel safe by another person. “Mr. Rochester came thrice to my door in the course of it, to ask if I was safe and tranquil: and that was comfort, that was strength for anything.”( 312, Bronte)
3/30/2014 09:12:46 pm
In the time that Jane Eyre was a teenager growing up marriage had no sentimental value for either women or men. However marriage was taken very seriously and it wasn’t always about a woman finding a rich and wealthy man. Sometimes the man had to find the woman who was a higher class than he was so it went both ways. This was the case for Mr. Rochester and Blanch Ingram. Although it was more important to women when it came to finding a man to marry. Blanche was the type of women to always make her class and wealth a first priority. In the book Blanche Ingram says “"No, you men never do consider economy and common sense” (Blanche Ingram Ch. 17) this quotes displays that she is always thinking ahead and always having the eyes on the prize which is the money.
3/30/2014 11:00:29 pm
Jane is passionately outspoken in this moment, because that is who she truly is. She is not one to turn the other cheek, or quietly sit to the side and not go after what she wants. At least that is how she was before Lowood. She also truly cares about Rochester and that moved her to say something. This is also one of the things that set her apart from the other rich women. She has a much more noble value system. She values people and education, while they just value money and appearance. If any of these women were to marry it would all be very political. They would look for a rich man, who has a reputable name. Jane on the other hand would marry for love, much like her parents did before her.
3/31/2014 06:24:40 am
Jane is so passionately outspoken when she proclaims herself Rochester’s equal because she is bold when it comes to what she believes and thinks. She feels very strongly about the situation and wasn’t going to hide behind it. Rochester likes Jane’s style in this way and loves the fact that she isn’t afraid to say such things to him. She puts him in his place like no other. Miss Ingram is of his class and it would be acceptable in the society they lived in. She wants the money, she’d please his family, but Rochester doesn’t feel it. Jane is the one that gives him those chills everyone wants. She isn’t like the rest that just wanted the money; she truly loves him as he loves her. Miss Ingram will please the family since she is of their class and the “ideal” wife for Rochester. Jane, on the other hand, isn’t of their class and would be a difficult match up for his family to understand. Jane would bring Rochester true happiness unlike Miss Ingram. Marriage affects what they think is right, and hesitant to act on their true feelings making Jane telling Rochester they were equals and him agreeing a very rare thing.
3/31/2014 02:51:18 pm
Jane Eyre possesses a sense of self-worth and justice. Since she was a child, she was so passionately outspoken and always fought to be free. Jane is noble because she finally confessed her love for Mr. Rochester, and to her surprise, he asked her to be his dearly wife. As you know, Jane never had a real home until she met Mr. Rochester, the love of her life, and when he proposed to her, she was so glad that he wasn't going to marry Blanche Ingram. In Chapter 23, the marriage was decided between Mr. Rochester and Jane Eyre, but something wasn't right that night because “Adele came running to tell Jane that the great horse-chestnut at the bottom of the orchard had been struck by lightning,” (298) where Mr. Rochester and Jane were sitting. It was like a bad omen coming to get them or may be their wedding will not happen. In Chapter 24, Mr. Rochester tries to dress Jane Eyre like she was from upper class. She reacted with revulsion because he treated her like a toy. Jane said, “I will not be your English Celine Varens. I shall continue to act as Adele’s governess.” (313) Jane was really afraid that Rochester was trying to change her into something she wasn't. It was like Mr. Rochester didn't love Jane Eyre for who she really was. Jane is afraid with the thought that Rochester’s love might be a favor to her.
3/31/2014 04:21:09 pm
Jane has always been different than the rest of the ladies revolving her. For that reason, she is very outspoken and direct. The author purposely composed her as so to reveal how different Jane is from the typical woman. She is equal to Rochester because that is exactly what shouldn’t happen during that time period. As mentioned before, Jane is different than the rest. She stays true to her word, and will do what is best for her by herself. Unlike the rest of the women visiting Rochester. Their only intentions are to hunt for good husband with money. Rochester tests Jane by telling her, “we will sit there in peace to-night, though we should never more be destined to sit there together.” Upon that line, it is obvious that if he marries Jane, he will have a true companion, unlike the rest of the gold-diggers. If Rochester married Ingram it wouldn’t be for love, ”What love have I for Miss Ingram? None.” Whereas if he married Jane, she would be filled with jewelry and a life of the city. Marriage is important for women because it places them on their social pyramid. During that time, the ladies looked for a great husband followed by a respected name.
4/1/2014 04:10:32 pm
She is so passionately outspoken because she really does feel like his equal. The only thing that differs between the two individuals is that Rochester is wealthy while Jane comes from a horrid background. Why should she hold back from stating the obvious? I feel as though she wants Rochester to be aware of her mindset and make sure that he understands what her stand is. Her self-evaluation is true. From a women’s right stand point I can argue that she truly is Rochester’s equal in the fact that she is capable of achieving all the things he has accomplished if put in the same situations. From a relationship standpoint, she brings as much to the table in comparison to Mr. Rochester. She speaks her mind and lets Rochester know what’s up. She is more noble in a sense that she us able to finally speak her mind regardless of the circumstances. Little Jane is finally learning some new tricks.
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